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Watched 1st Ep Of Ken Burns Vietnam

it was a good historical primer on the lead up to the war. l...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/04/18
Weird how lefties adore JFK since he was basically the Georg...
Insane right-wing gun nut
  01/04/18
cr. though the world would be a better place if leading us s...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/04/18
i prefer the series "battlefield: vietnam." it wa...
,.,..,.,..,.,.,.,..,.,..,..,..,.,,..,.,,.
  01/04/18
that's old right? facts about what specifically? beyond t...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/04/18
we watched ep 2 last nite. w/o hindsight, were jfk and mc...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/05/18
Noam Chomsky of all people has claimed that the domino theor...
thomas the slav
  01/12/18
what's the counterargument to this?
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/12/18
Its a silly fear to think that proximity matters more than c...
Taylor Swift is both a hobby and a lifestyle
  01/12/18
this seems kinda dumb. why would vietnam-laos-cambodia be an...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/12/18
Trent Reznor soundtrack
Oh, you travel?
  01/05/18
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oU4ZbLzaqRI
hey! rook, risten...
  01/05/18
watched ep 3. this series is getting a little tedious and TM...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/12/18
LOL @ Koch brothers propaganda
:D
  01/12/18
?
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/12/18
Koch brothers paid for it.
:D
  01/12/18
it's pretty anti-war. why would the koch brothers have wante...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/12/18
It's very anti-hippie.
thomas the slav
  01/12/18
it's very anti-war / anti-military establishment though
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/12/18
Have you read about how the series is being received in Viet...
http://i.imgur.com/GzDww8M.jpg
  01/12/18
no i havent. link? explain 2. even if they did obscure st...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/12/18
Looking for the link, but can you understand that winning fo...
http://i.imgur.com/GzDww8M.jpg
  01/12/18
my personal take is that gooks never even wanted communism. ...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/12/18
Here's the only link I could find: https://www.voanews.co...
http://i.imgur.com/GzDww8M.jpg
  01/12/18
why was the north more of a shithole even before colonialism...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/12/18
I think itís just really anti-The Vietnam war as a thing. N...
Taylor Swift is both a hobby and a lifestyle
  01/12/18
It challenges conventional wisdom on a number of counts and ...
http://i.imgur.com/GzDww8M.jpg
  01/12/18
hasnt that always been the previous conventional wisdom -- t...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/12/18
We lost the war because the enemy defeated us.
:D
  01/12/18
Not at all. Many people believe there's really no such thing...
http://i.imgur.com/GzDww8M.jpg
  01/12/18
i see. i'm not far enough along, but were the draftees wh...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/12/18
According to the documentary volunteers and draftees fought ...
http://i.imgur.com/GzDww8M.jpg
  01/12/18
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/09/vietnam-war-ken-burns-us-...
:D
  01/12/18
Nice. Never mentioned Korea once. That takes some effort.
NeilArmstrong
  01/12/18
Itís incredible. Iíve watched most of it twice and will wat...
Taylor Swift is both a hobby and a lifestyle
  01/12/18
...
Oh, you travel?
  01/12/18
American and western conceptions of war were misinformed and...
.........,,;,;,;,,,............,,;,;;,.;.
  01/12/18
we're 7 eps in. this got MUCH better and is now 180. first 2...
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/26/18
Unforunately for the south Vietnamamese
Noise Complaints = White Supremacy
  01/26/18
ljl
Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD)
  01/26/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2018 5:30 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

it was a good historical primer on the lead up to the war. lots of shit i didnt know much about -- HCM's early years, formation of viet min, the french occupation, geneva accords, founding of south vietnam.

that's the stuff i didnt really know. not sure i'm looking forward to 9 eps about the details of the us war itself and endless vids of shitlib hippies protesting and sad stories of troops dying. i kinda know that part already. still worth watching?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082018)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2018 5:39 PM
Author: Insane right-wing gun nut

Weird how lefties adore JFK since he was basically the George Bush of his day

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082100)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2018 5:40 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

cr. though the world would be a better place if leading us shitlibs were jfk types not maxine waters and liz warren

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082108)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2018 5:45 PM
Author: ,.,..,.,..,.,.,.,..,.,..,..,..,.,,..,.,,.


i prefer the series "battlefield: vietnam." it was more facts-oriented and excised all the long boring interviews.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082138)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2018 5:48 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

that's old right?

facts about what specifically? beyond the big picture, are the vietnam war battle details that interesting?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082156)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 5th, 2018 6:06 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

we watched ep 2 last nite.

w/o hindsight, were jfk and mcnamara that wrong about the domino theory? the execution in VN was obviously bad, but seems like the intention of stopping communism wasnt all bad at the time.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35090369)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:33 PM
Author: thomas the slav

Noam Chomsky of all people has claimed that the domino theory worked: after other countries in the region (e.g. Thailand, Philippines, Malaysia) saw how badly we wrecked Vietnam they stomped out their communist movements with the quickness. Cambodia went communist but that were aligned with China, not the USSR, and by that time Nixon had already pivoted to China.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141256)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:36 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

what's the counterargument to this?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141290)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:40 PM
Author: Taylor Swift is both a hobby and a lifestyle

Its a silly fear to think that proximity matters more than culture and unique economic and political situations.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141315)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:51 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

this seems kinda dumb. why would vietnam-laos-cambodia be any more likely to fall into communism than the rest of se asia?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141434)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 5th, 2018 6:08 PM
Author: Oh, you travel?

Trent Reznor soundtrack

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35090385)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 5th, 2018 6:11 PM
Author: hey! rook, risten...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oU4ZbLzaqRI

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35090416)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:23 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

watched ep 3. this series is getting a little tedious and TMI with details of every battle that i'm not gonna remember. and the interviews are excessive and repetitive.

it's still pretty good. but i think each ep could have been an hour not 90 minutes

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141146)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:27 PM
Author: :D (5000 mcg B12/wk, 150 mcg iodine/day, 250 mg algal DHA-EPA/day)

LOL @ Koch brothers propaganda

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141187)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:28 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141188)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:28 PM
Author: :D (5000 mcg B12/wk, 150 mcg iodine/day, 250 mg algal DHA-EPA/day)

Koch brothers paid for it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141196)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:29 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

it's pretty anti-war. why would the koch brothers have wanted to pay for an anti-war movie?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141205)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:34 PM
Author: thomas the slav

It's very anti-hippie.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141268)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:35 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

it's very anti-war / anti-military establishment though

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141281)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:41 PM
Author: http://i.imgur.com/GzDww8M.jpg


Have you read about how the series is being received in Vietnam? Apparently people there are pissed off that their government 1) covered up atrocities by the communists, and 2) obscured statistics about the death toll in order to promote the idea that the war was worth fighting. As dumb as the war may have been for America, it was a much bigger mistake for Vietnam to not dump the USSR and follow Thailand and South Korea's example.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141325)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:52 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

no i havent. link?

explain 2. even if they did obscure stats, the fact that they won kinda vindicates the idea that the war was worth fighting.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141450)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:55 PM
Author: http://i.imgur.com/GzDww8M.jpg


Looking for the link, but can you understand that winning for the sake of winning is not worth 3 million dead plus decades of brutal poverty and starvation? Vietnamese today are busting their asses trying to get caught up with the rest of the developed world. They want nothing to do with communism. "Victory" brought them nothing but misery. There is even talk of letting the US Navy use their port facilities now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141484)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:58 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

my personal take is that gooks never even wanted communism. they just wanted whitey out of their country. i do think it's alpha that they were able to stand up to both the french and the americans and get their own country. so to me, it's more than winning just to win.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141505)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 3:10 PM
Author: http://i.imgur.com/GzDww8M.jpg


Here's the only link I could find:

https://www.voanews.com/a/vietnam-war-documentary-draws-muted-official-response-in-hanoi/4041620.html

There was a better article I saw but I'm still looking for it.

Anyway yes, they were primarily fighting whitey. But bear in mind that Vietnamese are just as susceptible as anyone to irrational jingoism, xenophobia and paranoia. Appeals to patriotism only go so far after 30 years of starvation and suffering. Vietnamese today seem more interested in making a quick buck and going to the mall than resisting western imperialism. There was always a big divide between North and South Vietnam even before the French arrived, and South Vietnam under the French was more prosperous and developed. Over time the South Vietnamese attitude has become dominant, and now Hanoi seems fully on board with their way of thinking even though official propaganda still lauds ho chi minh as a demigod.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141635)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 3:13 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

why was the north more of a shithole even before colonialism? werent the north more in the sinosphere and more educated and the southerners more of an ethnic mishmash?

now, vietnam is just becoming another GC pawn

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141654)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:41 PM
Author: Taylor Swift is both a hobby and a lifestyle

I think itís just really anti-The Vietnam war as a thing. No one comes out clean and thatís why KB is so good. He just presents all the facts, places them in the actual context, and personally doesnít care about which side was right because he is a historian.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141335)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:38 PM
Author: http://i.imgur.com/GzDww8M.jpg


It challenges conventional wisdom on a number of counts and promotes the view that we had the gooks by the balls after the tet offensive but that domestic politics held us back. It places blame for the political reaction primarily on the Johnson administration for perpetually lying about how well the war was going, so that any setback challenged the official narrative and made Americans distrust any truthful reporting of American successes.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141302)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:40 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

hasnt that always been the previous conventional wisdom -- that we lost the war because we lost the american people

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141314)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:41 PM
Author: :D (5000 mcg B12/wk, 150 mcg iodine/day, 250 mg algal DHA-EPA/day)

We lost the war because the enemy defeated us.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141327)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:42 PM
Author: http://i.imgur.com/GzDww8M.jpg


Not at all. Many people believe there's really no such thing as an effective counter-insurgency against an enemy who knows the terrain. They think the gooks just had the upper hand militarily. The documentary points out that our soldiers were just as badass as the guys who fought in WW2 and that gook losses were more significant than most people believe.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141341)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:54 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

i see.

i'm not far enough along, but were the draftees who didnt volunteer as badass as the volunteers who went early on?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141473)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:59 PM
Author: http://i.imgur.com/GzDww8M.jpg


According to the documentary volunteers and draftees fought heroically early on. After Nixon announced that we were withdrawing they refused to fight and started fragging commanders who ordered them to do foot patrols in the jungle.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141519)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:39 PM
Author: :D (5000 mcg B12/wk, 150 mcg iodine/day, 250 mg algal DHA-EPA/day)

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/09/vietnam-war-ken-burns-us-imperialism

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141309)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 5:00 PM
Author: NeilArmstrong

Nice. Never mentioned Korea once. That takes some effort.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35142451)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:38 PM
Author: Taylor Swift is both a hobby and a lifestyle

Itís incredible. Iíve watched most of it twice and will watch again.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141307)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:55 PM
Author: Oh, you travel?



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141483)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 4:00 PM
Author: .........,,;,;,;,,,............,,;,;;,.;.


American and western conceptions of war were misinformed and I thought that was the takeaway from the documentary. Americans thought you could fight another country's civil war without accounting for the popular will of the people. They thought winning was all about body count. They let ideology govern policy while ignoring practical consideration. There's also no doubt notions of racial and cultural superiority played a role. I think after Vietnam and Korea, Westerners were done fucking with Asians and decided to stick to picking on Arabs and Latin/South Americans.

The irony today is that Vietnam is closer to the US than it is to China.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35142006)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 26th, 2018 1:43 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

we're 7 eps in. this got MUCH better and is now 180. first 2-3 eps were a little slow/dull. the action really stepped up and the interviewees are much more compelling and the footage is much better.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35245178)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 26th, 2018 2:01 PM
Author: Noise Complaints = White Supremacy

Unforunately for the south Vietnamamese

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35245357)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 26th, 2018 2:04 PM
Author: Perky & Davey's Puppy Dood (PDPD) (*)

ljl

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35245387)